Brittni:

Okay, I am so excited to have you here today, Tiffany, just because when I was thinking about like interviewing people for the podcast, I’m like, you were the first person that came to my mind just because we’ve grown such a great friendship in real life outside of Instagram. And I think you have such an important message. You are such a good resource for moms. So if you will just introduce yourself for us.

Tiffany:

Okay, my name is Tiffany Bellinger. I’m Brittany’s work wife. I… Okay,

Brittni:

Yes.

Tiffany:

so I’ll start over for that. Sorry, editor.

Brittni:

Okay.

Tiffany:

So I’m Tiffany Bellinger and I’m the founder of CoSleepy. I have a website over at coSleepy.com, but of course I’m on Instagram. I like to focus on safety, comfort, and logistics, sort of like all those little very specific questions that come to parents like us who… co-sleep or bed share especially. I like to, I just had a really hard time finding that information when I was a new mom. And so since then, I’ve just been working really hard to kind of get it out there and to normalize it because there are millions of parents across the world right now who are co-sleeping. And it’s a very normal, natural thing, but here I live in America, here it is not normal. So that’s what I’m working to do.

Brittni:

And you are, if I could have like a short slogan for you, it would be like the go-to person for anything related to safe co-sleeping. And you, we moms are so lucky to have you. You’re such an amazing resource. But I wanna also look at the person behind co-sleepy, the mama behind co-sleepy. So who are you behind that role?

Tiffany:

I have two little boys, one’s five and one’s three. And my husband and I have recently decided that we’re done for sure. And so that was a very sort of bittersweet decision. But so we have our two boys. We live in Sacramento, California, which is kind of near where I grew up. I’ve talked to you a lot about this, Britt, but I basically just, right now I work. As soon as my husband’s off work, I go into our little office and work on CoSleepy and I take as many hours as I can that he’ll give me. It’s just, I really have, I’ve got to find a way to sort of be better to myself, like health-wise, I need to go out there and make friends. I have a lot of wonderful people who I chat with through my phone, like you, every

Brittni:

Hehehe

Tiffany:

single day. But as far as hanging out with somebody in real life, it’s been a really long time. And I’m sure it’s similar, I’m guessing, with your friends that at this age when a lot of us have really young kids, it’s just so hard to coordinate. And then when you’re texting back and forth, sometimes it just sort of dies. It’s just like, we can’t, right now is not a good time for one of us. And so we just sort of give up and then months pass. You know, so. I recently reached the point where I’ve decided that I’ve gotten co-sleepy into a good place. Like our Instagram community has grown so much and I just, I need to find a way to like, to live again sort of, to like get my head out of the water. So that’s kind of what I’m doing right now. I don’t know if that’s a good answer but.

Brittni:

Yes, totally. Well, so and I love that because it just goes to show that like, I think even if you’re a mom and you’ve never started a business, you can kind of relate because starting your own business is kind of like motherhood. Like you, you grow this baby of a business and then you’re throwing like as much energy into it as you can. Now also we do have children that we’re taking care of too, but it becomes this thing where we are either solely mother or solely business owner and we’re like, we don’t have our identity, our identity as ourselves. So

Tiffany:

Mm-hmm.

Brittni:

I’m going to ask you a tough question, which I’ll be asking every guest on the show, but it is how are you currently finding rest in motherhood? Or if you’re honest, if your honest answer is, you know what, I haven’t been really prioritizing that. Maybe you can, what’s the word I’m looking for? Commit to yourself a way that you’re going to start finding rest and motherhood for yourself.

Tiffany:

Okay, can you hear me?

Brittni:

I can hear you, can you? Are you? That’s

Tiffany:

Okay,

Brittni:

so

Tiffany:

there,

Brittni:

weird.

Tiffany:

you’re back. You froze for a while, but I’ll answer your question now. I just wanted to wait to

Brittni:

Okay.

Tiffany:

make sure you were done talking. Yeah, I remember telling you recently that over the last calendar year, I think I gained like 60 or 70,000 Instagram followers, which was amazing. But

Brittni:

Mm-hmm.

Tiffany:

I also gained 10 pounds on my body because I’m just working. That’s all I’m doing. I’m not exercising. I’m not really prioritizing the healthy food that I’m eating. drinking two coffees a day and it’s been like, I feel so embarrassed because it’s kind of been a joke on Instagram where I, for this whole year, basically, I’ve been trying to cut the afternoon coffee, but it just hasn’t worked. It’s just like a mental thing, like a crutch sort of. And so right now, I think the way I’m resting is sort of going easy on myself. When I look in the mirror or the rare times I weigh myself and just being like, it’s okay, you did gain 10 pounds, but… look at all the other things you’ve done, be kind to yourself. You have two really young children who require a lot, a lot of time and energy from you. And, you know, when I was younger, I probably would have, it would have been really hard to have that grace with myself and I would have just been scrutinizing myself and very critical. And so that’s something over time I’ve been working on. And I think motherhood really changed that for me too. I remember… I loved being pregnant because I didn’t have to worry about like if my belly was sort of my tummy was sort of sticking out in an awkward position. Like I don’t know why, but that’s something I was always paranoid about beforehand. You know, you walk into a room and you like do your posture and make sure you look good. But when you’re pregnant, just be yourself. Like your stomach is sticking out and it’s supposed to and it’s like a beautiful thing. And so since then, I’m so happy to say over these last five years, I’ve been much, I don’t think about that at all anymore. And now it’s Ironic, I definitely have more of a pooch than I did, you know, in my twenties beforehand, but like, I just feel, like motherhood has helped me become confident in a lot of really random ways. Like, do you relate to that?

Brittni:

Totally, and you don’t realize it until you’ve gone through it. Here I am four years into motherhood and I look back and I was so insecure with myself, so insecure with the decisions I was making, and then sometimes I’ll stop and look in the mirror or think about the last four years, and I’m like, where did this confidence come from? Who is this person? Because when you start your motherhood journey, you don’t feel that confidence. There’s just so much. And you like segwayed into perfectly because that’s what I wanna talk about today, which is feeling confident in the choices you’re making, especially choices that can feel like you’re going against the grain and sometimes navigating those feelings of feeling alone. And one thing you said that I relate to so much is like you don’t hang out with a lot of mom friends in real life. And I’m the same way as you. My closest mom friends live in other states, you. being one of them. And I honestly think it makes our friendship easier because we just talk to each other when we can, right? Like I might text you and then you might text me right back or you might text me back 10 hours later and then I might text you back two days, but we’re still in that constant communication. And I think that one of the things for me, I don’t know if you relate to this too, but. I think it’s so easy being your friend because we’re on the same page and there’s never this fear of like, if I say like, oh, Lila woke up five times last night. Luckily that doesn’t happen anymore. But if it did, I wouldn’t be getting a message from you about like, oh, you really just need a letter, cry it out or something like that. And so I think that I’ve been really kind of guarded about making these mom friends because Obviously, I’m very confident in the decisions I’m making now. That’s what my whole business is built around. That’s what your whole business is built around. But I don’t want to have a friendship where I feel like I’m having to defend the choices that I’m making or, you know, like a friendship should feel easy. You should be able to rest in a friendship, too. And so I don’t know if you find that like similar. Like, it’s really intimidating to make friends like at the park or. I don’t know through like another mom at school because you’re like, are we gonna, it’s almost kind of like dating. Like, are we gonna have the same values or am I gonna get like judged for my choices?

Tiffany:

Mm-hmm. It definitely is like dating. It’s and I’ve just this again. This is something that I haven’t been prioritizing So that’s not good, but I have not I’m trying to think back in these last five years I think I’ve made one new friend I still have other friends from before who I talked

Brittni:

See,

Tiffany:

to

Brittni:

isn’t it like,

Tiffany:

Some more than others

Brittni:

I don’t,

Tiffany:

based

Brittni:

I’m

Tiffany:

on

Brittni:

the

Tiffany:

their

Brittni:

same. Like

Tiffany:

parenting

Brittni:

I just

Tiffany:

choices,

Brittni:

don’t,

Tiffany:

just like you said because

Brittni:

and I.

Tiffany:

it’s just oh Was I were you frozen or was I frozen?

Brittni:

One of us were frozen. I’m like, should we turn off the… Gosh, but then

Tiffany:

The

Brittni:

we’re not

Tiffany:

footage

Brittni:

gonna see

Tiffany:

will

Brittni:

each

Tiffany:

come back

Brittni:

other.

Tiffany:

perfectly, but just know that like just try to look towards like pretend you’re looking at me still

Brittni:

Okay,

Tiffany:

Does that make sense?

Brittni:

yeah, I’m gonna, okay, low data mode for all. Okay.

Tiffany:

Okay, but now I don’t remember what I was saying.

Brittni:

Okay, so I’ll go back a little bit. I was saying, or I asked if it was, we’ll just go back to where I asked, I don’t know if it’s the same for you, but I have a hard time making,

Tiffany:

Okay.

Brittni:

even trying to make friends because I’m afraid of what they’re going to think about my

Tiffany:

Mm-hmm.

Brittni:

choices.

Tiffany:

Yes, I thinking back in these last five years that I’ve been a mom, I think I’ve made one new friend and it was because she lived near me when I moved to that neighborhood. Otherwise, the only people I talk to are friends from my past who either there’s only a few who I text and very, very rarely see in real life. We don’t all have the same. sleep philosophies, like some of them have sleep trained their kids. But the ones that I still talk to are the types where they are so supportive of me co-sleeping. And they were like my first cheerleaders for co-sleepy when I had like seven Instagram followers for the whole first few months.

Brittni:

Hehehe

Tiffany:

It was really hard for me to gain traction on Instagram, but I have some wonderful people in my life who’ve supported me who never co-slept and did not want to do it. But as for real life, people like brand new friends that I’m bringing into my life. Like I told you, it’s been like one, one person. Just because like you said, there’s a risk there of making it weird. Like my son, my oldest right now is starting kindergarten and there’s some nice parents there who I wanna become friends with. But what if they ask me like, oh, what do you do? What’s your job? Like I just have such a hard time with that. I say like. an online like Instagram,

Brittni:

Hehehehe

Tiffany:

like educator, not an influencer, but an educator. Or I sometimes will, depending on the person, I’ll change it up to say, like, I make how to guides, like little handbooks that I sell and help as an educator, you know, but sometimes, uh, you know, it’s really hard not to bring up the whole co-sleeping aspect since that’s literally, that is what I’m doing and focusing on. Um, and yeah, I’ve, nobody has directly, um, shamed me or anything like that. but there’s been some weird looks and I’ve had some acquaintances who just like never talk to me again. Even though it’s not like I was trying to give them sleep advice or anything, it’s just they wanted to stay very far away from me at that point. So, and you know, that’s okay because we’re in our 30s now and look how busy we are with our kids and our businesses. Like we don’t need to be trying to make brand new friends every single week, you know what I mean? But it is, it’s been really hard for me to. become confident about co-sleepy. Which is really

Brittni:

Totally.

Tiffany:

funny because you probably know my little motto for co-sleepy is co-sleep with confidence.

Brittni:

Yeah.

Tiffany:

Which is like a reminder to me every time I see it, I’m like, ah, I’m just talking to myself basically.

Brittni:

Well, and that’s, it’s funny, because that was one thing when I was like thinking about our conversation, I was like, one thing I really want to touch on is the fact that I bet from the outside, most people would think like, okay, you have this big account, you’re talking about something that’s really contrary to the mainstream narrative. Most people might even think we’re weird, and yet we’re doing so in front of thousands of people. And so it might, people might just assume, oh, like you’re probably like, you’re so confident about it. And isn’t it funny because I find it’s so easy to be confident about it behind a screen, but then to

Tiffany:

Mm-hmm.

Brittni:

kind of take that confidence out into the real world can feel really intimidating.

Tiffany:

Mm-hmm.

Brittni:

But, and that’s a question I have for you. So how do you, how have you, I mean, you have a five year old, so how have you found confidence? in your choices to bedshare. I don’t even like calling it this, but for lack of a better term, like do extended breastfeeding, because to me it’s just breastfeeding no matter

Tiffany:

Mm-hmm.

Brittni:

what age, but to breastfeed past infancy, how have you found the confidence to do that? And if you could tell another mom, like this is what I did, or I don’t, just some tips.

Tiffany:

Well, I have such a specific path here because I did start co-sleepy when my son was right from birth, I mean, like I always knew I wanted to be an entrepreneur and I was writing down little ideas in a notepad, but I didn’t officially launch co-sleepy until he was two. But a lot of it was done in secret, like nobody knew, not many people knew we were co-sleeping. I just avoided the topic. And at night I was doing research. And once I knew I wanted to do a blog, I found a lot of, I gained a lot of confidence in reading James McKenna’s book. And Leleche has a really great book called Sweet Sleep. And I just like, I was such a achiever, like a student growing up, you know what I mean? So I personally got

Brittni:

Mm-hmm.

Tiffany:

my confidence by writing my blog posts where I would reference all these books and. research studies online and I would craft it into like a big blog post that I still don’t know if anybody ever reads, but it’s on my website. But that helped me sort of learn the science behind it and Safe Infant Sleep, which is James McKenna’s book, goes really in depth into sort of like co-sleeping around the world and how other countries, it’s the norm there. And there’s like no cases of SIDS in Japan, for example. And here’s why they think that. the case and that stuff really helped me but as far as like meeting friends or talking to my parents or my extended family I just wouldn’t it was like it was like a secret co-sleepy for a long time

Brittni:

Totally.

Tiffany:

like nobody knew I was doing it except for Matt my husband and I eventually when I felt like I had a safe space with a friend would be like by the way this is what I’ve been doing but I It was hard when I had seven Instagram followers. I’d finally tell someone, this is what I’m doing, and they’d look me up and they’d see a few posts and like no followers. And I felt like this is making it seem like it is weird and it is something, you know what I mean? Like once my Instagram account started to grow and there were thousands and thousands of people following me, then I felt more confident telling people, this is what I’ve been working on for the last three years because it’s like,

Brittni:

Totally.

Tiffany:

especially like my parents. I was like, look mom, I have 50,000 followers. So maybe it’s not so weird that the boys are still sleeping in our bed. So.

Brittni:

I just got chills thinking about that because what an amazing time right now in motherhood. And I know social media has its pros and its cons, but to even have resources, a resource like you, like we didn’t have you when we first started out, right? Like you didn’t have yourself, you didn’t have someone like yourself. And so what a beautiful thing that, you know what? Like, so you’ve gone through some really uncomfortable times feeling like, Maybe you, people were judging you, but like you said, look how far you’ve come, look at the community you’ve grown and look at how many lives you’ve impacted in a positive way. I wish I knew how many families that you’ve helped choose to co-sleep in a safe way and do it confidently. And I just love that. I’m so happy that everyone gets to. have access to the knowledge that you’ve created. And I think one thing I wanted to touch on is I think that that’s so true about the education piece is once you know, like, hey, I have the science and the data to back this up. Like, yeah, although I’m a firm believer, right? Like our maternal instincts are there.

Tiffany:

Hmm.

Brittni:

And that for me, that’s my driving force of is like, it feels right to me, even if a thousand people are gonna judge me for what I’m doing, if I see it. positively impacting my daughter, that’s where my confidence comes from. But I think that there’s so many people in the world like yourself where the education piece, the science to back it up is like your way of saying, hey, you know what, like we can go head to head or toe to toe. I have my science and my reasons for doing it. So

Tiffany:

Yes.

Brittni:

I think that just goes to show we can all find our confidence in different ways too.

Tiffany:

Oh, totally. And you and I have talked, too, about our moms. Your mom is very supportive of everything you’ve done with Lila so far, right? Bed sharing

Brittni:

Totally,

Tiffany:

being one

Brittni:

yeah.

Tiffany:

of them. My parents were not supportive, are still not supportive, or understanding of it. So that just shows that even us right now at our age, what our parents, what our moms specifically think about what we’re doing, it does have an impact, even though we’re moms now. Like that shows how strong the mother-child bond is. And so if you’re like me and you feel like your mom is ashamed of you and what you’re doing, it’s very different than you. Like maybe that’s why you’re so easily able to tap into your instincts and feel empowered. Where for me, it’s taken these five years to slowly start to get there. Because basically when I tap into my instincts, they’re 180 degrees apart from what my mom wants. So that’s a really big

Brittni:

Totally.

Tiffany:

deal for me.

Brittni:

Yeah, well, and I love that you brought that up because just like you said, that just goes to show my mom bedshared with me. She breastfed me till 18 months, which back in the 90s, I feel like she was a cool

Tiffany:

Mm-hmm.

Brittni:

lady, right? Like this,

Tiffany:

Yeah.

Brittni:

like, I don’t think that was the norm. I mean, that was like the formula era

Tiffany:

Yeah.

Brittni:

and there’s nothing wrong with formula, but I just, it wasn’t the norm. And so I think that that’s so true to kind of point out is like, Even if what your family is thinking about it feels or like if they’re judging you or whatever, you can rest in that confidence that you are leaning into what your child needs. You’re following your instincts and ultimately your child is going to be positively impacted by that and no one else around you is really going to be directly impacted by what you’re choosing to do. So really… Who cares what they think, which I know is hard when it’s your family. I don’t wanna discredit that, but there’s kind of this beauty in knowing that like, I’m making these choices for the child in front of me. And if it causes discomfort for me, so be it if they’re gonna have a beautiful outcome because of it.

Tiffany:

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Brittni:

How do you, if you, do you talk about co-sleeping with family or do you kind of just let it be something that like, it’s like a kind of like religion or politics, right? Like it’s just something that’s not discussed.

Tiffany:

Well, it’s changed over the years. At first, it was, it caused a lot of conflict because we were living with my parents at that time because we had moved up from Los Angeles and we’re looking for new jobs and all this stuff here in Northern California when our baby was born. And so we were like in their house. It was hard to avoid the topic, you know, where the baby was sleeping. And they just didn’t understand. They just completely, yeah, they had their kids late eighties and nineties and we were all in cribs. From night one, we were in a crib in a different room. And this was before we had all the information about SIDS prevention. And so we were placed on our tummies, which we know now is very dangerous. And I was breastfed for a year. So that was a long, I feel like that was a long time for my

Brittni:

Wow.

Tiffany:

mom. Yeah, because she was able to take that whole year off from work, but then she had to go back just like so many of us here in America. And so that’s just what, they haven’t updated. My parents have not updated their information or education on raising infants or newborns since the late 80s, let’s say, or 90s. So they were very surprised that Matt and I were like, no, he’s sleeping better in our bed, so we’re going to do research on that and switch. I know we have this crib over here that we researched a lot and paid a lot of money for since it was a non-toxic crib, but he’s not going to be touching that. It just, we’re putting, we’re taking off our bed frame. We’re gonna put our mattress directly on the floor and we’re gonna just, for now at least, he’s gonna be with us in bed. That just like blew their minds. They couldn’t handle it. They truly couldn’t handle it. And so that was back then. We don’t live with them anymore and many things have happened like my husband’s job. For example, took us to small town Texas for a few years. We’re now back in California, but we just had an adventure for those first few years and a lot of… A lot of it, we were by ourselves. It was just Matt, me, and our first baby for this first two years at least. And so in a way that was helpful because we were insulated. We knew that at least my parents and family didn’t quite get co-sleeping and were maybe like a little bit embarrassed about it. His parents never asked, so they just have a different philosophy. They just sort of like stay out of the weeds, which I appreciate. But… It was

Brittni:

Totally.

Tiffany:

basically we were on our own to just decide what we wanted to do. And we had that physical space. We moved all the way to Texas. And so we could, that helped me with confidence too, because I didn’t have to walk out of my bedroom and report to my parents where the baby was sleeping or how long or yeah, how long I was going to breastfeed stuff like that. Like I could just sort of handle it on my own. And so like, for example, I got married, I got, um, for example, I got pregnant when my oldest was. 18 months and so we had the new baby like around his second birthday. And I was still breastfeeding the oldest. And it was really painful at times and so I ultimately decided to night wean him to help sort of give me a break overnight because daytime nursing was really painful. But I, yeah, I tandem nursed both of them. Even though I had a two year old, I’m sure maybe people in my family are just like the average person would be like, okay, you’re still for some reason, you’re. nursing your two-year-old who’s eating solid foods and he does not need breast milk anymore while you have this newborn and it’s causing a lot of conflict. Like my toddler was not happy about it as you could imagine.

Brittni:

Totally.

Tiffany:

And it was really hard. And I think a lot of people would say you should have weaned him long ago so that you didn’t even have to worry about this. But we, again, we were all by ourselves in that small town and this was during COVID, it was 2020. So… that was just the best decision for us was to just keep it going and adjust to me nursing both of them. So, and I don’t regret it at all, of course. Now, that was the best decision for us.

Brittni:

And it’s funny, I think that that’s so true about like the, you had physical space between them, so they couldn’t be up in your business all the time. And I’m trying to think of like a mom who doesn’t have that space between either her parents or her in-laws or whatever that may be. I’m trying to think of any advice I would give on like, how do you navigate those conversations? And for me, it would actually kind of be in. correlation to what you were saying about like you had the physical boundaries of like they weren’t near you But I think boundaries are just as important as like you know what this is what we’re doing. It’s not up for discussion Is there anything else

Tiffany:

Mm-hmm.

Brittni:

you would add to someone who’s navigating like these difficult? Conversations or judgments coming from family like how to navigate those and feel confident in your decisions

Tiffany:

It’s so difficult because if you come from a family like mine where maybe you didn’t have the strongest boundaries and you were still Listening to your parents advice or they were trying to give you advice when you were 30 Let’s say like that probably should have stopped a while back like your parents probably in an ideal world Parents would realize that their children are now adults and

Brittni:

Yeah.

Tiffany:

you have to sort of adjust your relationship. They’re not seven years old anymore They’re 30, you know, but of course it’s so easy for them to just always look at you like you’re that little girl, that little seven year old or whatever. So it was really hard for me to set firm boundaries because I had never set boundaries before with them, ever. And there were, I should have, and there were so many points in my upbringing or in my 20s when I should have done it, but I just sort of chickened out because I didn’t have any experience with it. Like I wish I had gone to therapy and learned some techniques or had someone there with me to help me do it, but I didn’t. And so by the time I had this newborn and I was trying to figure out breastfeeding and I was trying to recover physically from the birth and I was so tired and you know, trying to understand how to safely bed share also like so much stuff was happening. Then to have this, these parents who I thought were overstepping boundaries, like I just couldn’t even deal with it and I couldn’t, I just stayed in my room a long time which caused more problems. So I totally, if there’s anybody listening to this who’s gone, going through the same thing. you know, or has gone through it, like I see you, and it is so difficult, and it’s not your fault. You’re not doing anything wrong. If you could, if you have the strength and the bandwidth to talk to your parents and not just hide, and again, this was something I didn’t have in those first few weeks, but you could say, thank you so much, I know this is coming from a place of love, or I know you are just concerned, and you love your grandbaby so much. And you are going through a huge adjustment and transformation, especially if it was their very first grandchild, like in my case. It’s a really big deal. And I think a lot of grandparents don’t expect that, all the feelings that come with it and everything. But you can just say, for us, this is working well. We have done our research and you have, please trust us that we are the parents and we’re doing the very best thing that we. can do at this moment. We’re taking it day by day and we just need some space. We need you to trust us basically. You could do that. You could just like give a short answer, which is basically like this conversation is over, not even gonna go there. There’s so many, we’ve talked about this a lot in my, on my Instagram page because in, at least in America, we, most people go to the, they bring their children to the pediatrician for the first, however, I don’t know, few years, I guess, for all these checkups and… the pediatricians will ask you, where does the baby sleep? And so parents have to come up, sometimes like in the spur of the moment, they have to decide, am I gonna be honest and risk getting shamed or like, you know, CPS. Some people are really scared that they’re gonna be in trouble and someone would take their baby away. And I, of course, there are people who, that is a valid fear for them. But. You know, others are just, I’ve seen people print out safe bed sharing guidelines and like hand it to the pediatrician. I didn’t,

Brittni:

I

Tiffany:

again,

Brittni:

love it.

Tiffany:

yeah that does sound like you, but that, I didn’t have it in me. So I was one… oh sorry, go ahead.

Brittni:

I was going to say, I will be honest and say that I lied to our pediatrician in the first six months because I just, I didn’t want to, it wasn’t something like you said, like, and I didn’t even have the, like all of the resources and education at that point. And so I just would say in our room, I didn’t, I never said in the crib, I just said in our room, imply like then he could

Tiffany:

Totally.

Brittni:

imply from there. Like what? what that meant. But so I think but now gosh, I was just I just had a client call the other day and she was talking about how the pediatrician was telling her that she the only way her baby was gonna sleep if she left him to cry and I was like, I wish I could go to that appointment with you. Let me like let me go in there and like you know, because now we have this confidence but it is so scary because here’s this doctor that’s a person of but I would like to remind parents that ultimately the doctor does work for you. But I think it’s so scary, especially when we already are so insecure in our new role. I mean, just because we’ve been an adult for however long we’ve been an adult before we have a baby, we’re kind of reborn with our baby because we’re learning out or we’re figuring out who we are as parents.

Tiffany:

Mm-hmm. Yeah, I also lied to the pediatrician. And there were a couple times I was just vague about it. And based on their reaction and response, I ended up switching pediatricians. I think we saw three or four total until we found a good fit. But again, that requires a lot of emotional bandwidth. You’ve got to make calls. You’ve got to do research, maybe talk to insurance. Or one time I had to switch to a whole different clinic. Like that’s a hassle. And so I get why a lot of moms, new moms are just like, I don’t have it in me. I’m just gonna keep seeing this doctor and lie or, you know, or don’t lie. But then they come home feeling so much guilt and fear and anxiety, you know? And that,

Brittni:

Yeah.

Tiffany:

I feel like that affects the way that they can keep their baby safe at night. Like this is just

Brittni:

Totally.

Tiffany:

a personal feeling I have, but I feel like a mom who’s, a parent in general, who’s confident about. bed sharing is going to do a better job kind of like unconsciously following the guidelines or just like going with it. Whereas if a parent’s super anxious, like I feel like that could lead to accidents happening, right?

Brittni:

Totally.

Tiffany:

I don’t know. I’m not explaining it well, but do you see what I’m saying?

Brittni:

Yeah, totally. Well, and I think there’s something to be said about, this is, I’m kind of going in a different direction, but thinking about like lying to the doctor or being totally like blasted or judged for what you’re doing. I, another thought popped into my head in terms of like, okay, so we can hold boundaries or you can simply omit or say something like sleep’s not really something like we’re good with our sleep setup. It’s not really something we need to discuss. because then that at least you’re

Tiffany:

Mm-hmm.

Brittni:

kind of closing that door to being judged.

Tiffany:

Yeah.

Brittni:

But then you’re allowing, I kind of feel like that’s like, you know how the saying is like, fake it till you make it. Well, if you’re like, sleep is good, we don’t really need to talk about it. You’re kind of faking yourself into that confidence. And the more you feel confident about it, just like you said,

Tiffany:

Mm.

Brittni:

the easier it’s gonna be.

Tiffany:

Totally, I totally agree with that. And studies have shown that so many parents end up co-sleeping for like the second half of the night. A lot of parents will say, report to the doctor or to their friends or whatever, no, they sleep in their crib. What

Brittni:

Mm-hmm.

Tiffany:

they don’t admit is that at 3 a.m. when the baby starts crying and it’s really hard to transfer them back to their crib, by that point in the night, they just bring them into their bed. But they don’t consider themselves co-sleeping families. because they consider where they start the baby out, which is the crib, to be like what they do, their policy. But

Brittni:

Totally.

Tiffany:

isn’t that interesting?

Brittni:

Yeah. Well, and it just, that’s a perfect example of like, we never know what is really going on behind closed doors. Like, just like the families who are like, oh yeah, our baby sleeps the whole night. I hope, like, I’m not calling them a liar, but I’m like, okay, but like, if I were to dig a little bit further, I was to be a little fly on the wall in your home, would that really be the case? And I think oftentimes it’s not. And it can either be from a place of like, Oh, if I really admit how many times my baby’s waking, or if I really admit that I’m co-sleeping, I’m gonna get judged for it. So I think a lot of times we feel alone, but if we could all kind of take down these walls that we have or these masks that we have, we’d actually realize that what we’re doing is being done by a lot of other people. They’re just not openly talking about it.

Tiffany:

Exactly.

Brittni:

So one question I have for you is, and I kind of touched on this earlier, but even though you have a big IG or Instagram community, do you sometimes still feel like alone in your choices or in the way you’re parenting?

Tiffany:

That’s a great question. It helps, it really does help me sometime to see how many people are there because as a mom who’s going through this and doesn’t have any many real life friends who are bed sharing, it does give me that confidence. Just the numbers, like wow, there’s almost 100,000 of people who have hit follow. I am sure, Britt, that there are more people who check my page but don’t hit follow because they don’t want their friends and family to see that they’re following a co-sleeping account.

Brittni:

Totally.

Tiffany:

I’ve heard that actually from someone I did a consult with. It’s like, people don’t even want to be publicly affiliated with me, which is so sad. But I understand because I live in the same country and the same culture, so I get it. And that’s why I try to put so much free information on my page. And I would never go private even because of the trolls. Like, I want this to be a public place where people can get all the safety information they need. But so it does help me to see the numbers grow but at the same time Yeah, it’s just my phone and there’s been days where I have been out and about or with my family and I haven’t had my phone with me at all and you do start to realize like Real life with real life friends like they I don’t really have any That I see consistently. You know what I mean? And part of the problem is that I Was in Los Angeles for so long after UCLA like a lot of my friends are there or like you said, just in different states. And that’s not even bed sharing related. That’s just being like living in this modern world we live in. You know what I mean?

Brittni:

totally.

Tiffany:

But yeah, I don’t know. That was a good question because there’s not an easy answer. It’s nice to see so many people publicly admitting that they co-sleep or are interested in co-sleeping content. But. There’s only a few people like you who I actually have gone deeper with. And like, you know, my kids names, like I don’t share their names or faces on publicly just to protect their privacy while they’re little. But like, you’re one of the few people I’ve sent you a Christmas card. Like, there’s only a few. And so I don’t know, it’s just, it’s hard. I just feel like maybe other people in their early, mid thirties, all over the country or the world even are kind of going the same, through the same thing. Like just adjusting to this whole different life. Like, like you said, like we were reborn, like it feels like the before times are just completely different.

Brittni:

I would say I’m a fundamentally different person as a mom than I was before I was a mom. I think if someone from who knew me in college met me now, they would be like, are you sure you’re the same, Brittany?

Tiffany:

Yeah.

Brittni:

And it’s funny how motherhood can do that, but I think I am the same as you in terms of, I love that I have this community. but still sometimes at the park, like if I hear moms talking about sleep, I’ll like inch my way away

Tiffany:

Man.

Brittni:

because I’m like, I don’t, I’m not gonna lie, but I don’t wanna be a part of this conversation because I don’t wanna get the looks, right? Or I don’t, it’s just not a place that I, I don’t wanna talk about that. And so I think that that’s what’s hard is it’s, what I’ve learned in motherhood is sometimes we don’t have the village of support in our real life, but. one thing I feel like Instagram has blessed me with is I’ve been able to build this virtual village like with you. You were the first true real friendship I made on Instagram. What has it been now? Three years? I’m trying to think. Three years, I think.

Tiffany:

Mm-hmm.

Brittni:

And it slowly grew, right? We weren’t like BFFs. We would DM and then I don’t even know at what point we exchanged numbers. And then even though we had each other’s numbers, I would say just in the last year is when we’ve really, really become closer.

Tiffany:

I think it was when we both discovered that we have ADHD,

Brittni:

Yeah.

Tiffany:

or we think, wait, neither one of us has been officially diagnosed, but I think we both realized around the same time that

Brittni:

Yeah.

Tiffany:

we have ADHD, and so we were talking about this and sending each other memes, and it’s like, if you know what we’re talking about, you know, because it just reveals so much about your past. It’s like, oh, that’s why that happened and that happened, and that’s why I keep making the same mistake over and over, and so it’s such a, for me, it was such a relief. But I think that’s when we, discussed how people with ADHD have a really hard time without accountability

Brittni:

Yes.

Tiffany:

and people like reminding them about their deadlines or certain things they need to get done before that thing gets done. And so you and I swapped, I think that’s when we swapped numbers, right? And we said, let’s talk every single day, check in, we’re both small business owners, like, let’s help each other really shine. And look, I told you, over this last year, my account has grown so much. I think you’re, I was gonna say partially to blame, but that sounds bad. I think you deserve a lot of the credit, Britt, because

Brittni:

Oh, thank you.

Tiffany:

you really have helped me with so many different things. And so

Brittni:

You’re

Tiffany:

thank you

Brittni:

so

Tiffany:

for that.

Brittni:

sweet. Yeah, and I see this. I love that this is happening because yes, it’s it started as accountability, which we still do that. But like also we like I know deeply and personally, obviously not like the nitty gritty, but like I know what’s going on in your life. I know what struggles you’re having. I know what joys you’re having. You know, the struggles that are going on in my life. And so it just goes to show that like if there’s someone out there that’s like, I have no real life friends that I can relate to in motherhood. Find your. It doesn’t have to be a person face to face. Like you can find your village of support online. It doesn’t have to be like this play date group that you meet up with or something like that. If that’s been one of the biggest lessons in motherhood that I’ve learned, it’s that like you can build your village however you want it to look.

Tiffany:

I totally agree with that. But it does take work. Like

Brittni:

Totally.

Tiffany:

if there’s a couple days, it’s rare that a couple days would go by when I didn’t talk to you. I think, oh, I should text Brittany and check in. But there, like remember at the beginning of this, I said, I have some friends, we’d be trying to schedule a play date in real life or something. And it would just sort of fizzle out as we’re going through the details and finding out like, oh, we’re too busy for this. So I let the, that’s my fault. I let those conversations sort of fizzle and maybe I didn’t follow up in a few days and say, okay, let’s try again.

Brittni:

Yeah.

Tiffany:

So we only have so much time, like, right? To devote to your relationship, if you’re in one, your children or your baby, in our case, our little businesses. So I think what you’re saying is true. Like if you can find someone, even if they don’t live near you in real life, but you can have… But it does take some work to check in

Brittni:

Totally.

Tiffany:

and to like, and which again, I’m validating the fact that like, it’s really hard to check in, especially when you’ve just had a baby, you’re like, no, they should be checking in with me. Look, I’m barely handling, I’m barely surviving, you know? But eventually when you can like take a deep breath, I think if you can find one or two people who get you or just at least respect your parenting philosophies and can be there for you. just do text or voice notes. I love doing voice notes,

Brittni:

Me too.

Tiffany:

right? That’s what we do a lot. It just sounds, it’s just so much better to hear a real human voice.

Brittni:

And I think it’s easier. Maybe we feel that way because we have our Instagram accounts, but like some, I don’t want to like use my thumbs sometimes, you know, like, I just want to like type, like get out what I’m saying. And I think that that’s so true in motherhood. I found that like voice memos can be so helpful because sometimes you’re like, Oh, I have a quick minute while like wireless distracted

Tiffany:

Mm.

Brittni:

in my case. So I’m going to go like do a voice memo really quick. And then it keeps that, especially if you’re home alone. day with your kids. I think voice memos between friends kind of keeps your sanity. It kind of

Tiffany:

Mm-hmm.

Brittni:

helps you feel like, oh, I heard another adult voice today.

Tiffany:

Yeah.

Brittni:

But I like what you said about like doing like, I’m kind of the same way as you like my life is so busy that fitting and play dates feels like a chore. And sometimes like I feel like I’m in a season right now where that’s just not something that I can prioritize. So I’m prioritizing like talking to you, right? Like talking to my other friends in a way that feels like it’s not draining me. And so I think that’s something else is like letting the pressure go off of ourselves and just kind of deciding like, what do I have the energy for and what will serve me? And sometimes that might be like, you know what? Like I’m a totally extroverted introvert. So like, if I know you and I love you and I trust you, you’re never gonna get me to shut up. And Tiffany can attest to that because sometimes I’ll send her like. 10 minutes worth of voice memos in one sitting.

Tiffany:

Mm.

Brittni:

But getting outside of my comfort zone to someone that I don’t know particularly well is gonna feel really uncomfortable to me. So I think that that’s another piece in motherhood is like recognizing who you are and then like making it easy on yourself in a way that doesn’t feel like it’s gonna drain you even more.

Tiffany:

Right, because you do have to watch out for yourself.

Brittni:

Totally.

Tiffany:

And right, you got to prioritize. Like, is it going to be your baby, your newborn first, let’s say, then you, then your relationship, your partner, and then, I don’t know, your family, I guess? I don’t know. It’s like hard. It’s really hard to make those decisions. And sometimes they change. People will swap. But that’s OK. We’re all doing it. And hopefully, if you have a real friend, if you’re kind of like, MIA for a couple of years, they’ll understand if you can eventually talk to them and say like, hey, my kid is now in daycare or kindergarten. I understand if you are done with me, but I’m here if you want to hang out and reconnect.

Brittni:

Totally, yeah. And I think that’s what we have to realize is like, sometimes friendships do just go. And I used to take it personally, like I had a really, really good friend that she didn’t have a baby yet when I had Lila and some comments were made to me and like I went into full mama bear mode and we are no longer friends and now she has a baby. And I sometimes I’m like, do I reach out? But I… I think sometimes we just have to know, sometimes friends are in our lives for a season, sometimes friends are in our lives for forever, and just kind of accepting that, that everything in life is a season and just kind of trying to find the best way to enjoy the season we’re in.

Tiffany:

Mm-hmm. Yep.

Brittni:

Thank you so much, Tiffany, for being here. Is there any, are there any parting words that you’d like to say, any nuggets of wisdom that we can get from you before you leave?

Tiffany:

Oh man, that’s hard. You’re not the only one to ask. Other people ask that too. I really wish I had something. I guess I just wanna say that Brittany and I both see you like whatever you’re going through, whether that’s like your baby just sleeping on your chest all day long or they’re a little bit older and you try to like get them out and about or there’s learning to walk, you know, like whatever stage they’re in, even if you have a toddler like. It’s really hard and especially if you co-sleep, there’s really fun, easy seasons. Then it’s like almost overnight, things can shift and change and then you find yourself in a really hard chapter for weeks or months. But I have been there and I’m sending you love and you will get through it. You can always transition out of bed sharing in a gentle way without doing cry it out or any of that stuff. If you really need to, you can. Or you can be like me who just sort of like goes with the flow. We have, my three-year-old is still sleeping with us full time in our bed, but we have a five-year-old who has his own room and his own little kid bed. But around midnight or so, whenever he wakes up, he’ll come and join us for the rest of the night. And I love it. Sometimes when I go to bed at like 11, I’ll just say, OK, I’m just going to go grab him and bring him in already, because I know he’ll be here soon. And it feels so weird to not have him here. I just feel safer. having both my babies right there beside me like and my husband. The three people who I love most in the world when they’re right next to me. It just it’s an amazing feeling and it feels so safe and just right. So

Brittni:

I love

Tiffany:

so yeah

Brittni:

that. I love that

Tiffany:

um

Brittni:

and I think that’s a way to also say like that’s another place to tap into confidence. Like you said, like what do you feel when you co-sleep? Like just like you said, you’re with your three favorite humans, you’re in the safest place you guys could be. What a beautiful feeling and that itself can give you the confidence that you need.

Tiffany:

Exactly. Night by night it can grow and I can tell you in my case it did. But I also started with Britt, I want to say that if they’re not feeling that way because I know there are so many people out there who are just so

Brittni:

true.

Tiffany:

anxious and they can’t get past the guilt or the anxiety that’s keeping them up and they’re not sleeping. So I don’t think that every family out there, I don’t think that… I don’t think that co-sleeping is the right thing for every family out there to do. Like I don’t think everybody can do it safely or people can do it without this crazy anxiety about it. So

Brittni:

Totally.

Tiffany:

you could be doing it just for a few weeks right now and you’re listening to this or you could be like me and Britt who do it long term. But either way, just keep up the good work and know that this is a season that will pass and things will get better.

Brittni:

I love that. And I just to wrap that up, I would say only you get to decide what works in your home, whether that be you are going to safely co-sleep or maybe it means co-sleeping isn’t working for you and that’s okay. But it’s all about what doing, it’s all about doing what feels best in your home for your family and just trusting in what feels best for you.

Tiffany:

Exactly.

Brittni:

Thank you so much, Tiffany, for being here. You said at the beginning of our conversation, but if you could let us know where we can find you, how we can learn more from you.

Tiffany:

Yes, everything is on my website, co-sleepy.com. But if you want more of like a community feel, please follow me on Instagram, where you’ll see. Right now, there’s almost 100,000 people who are doing similar things as you probably. And I try, it takes a long time, but even yesterday, I was going through all the comments to delete some mean ones, some snarky ones. Like

Brittni:

I

Tiffany:

I’m,

Brittni:

do it too.

Tiffany:

yeah, like even though, Britt, even though our accounts

Brittni:

And you’ll

Tiffany:

are

Brittni:

also

Tiffany:

this…

Brittni:

find some really hilarious memes over on Tiffany’s page, which I love.

Tiffany:

I try. But yeah, even though the account is this big, I really try to keep it a safe space and delete mean comments, because as we’ve been talking about, this can be a really tricky challenging season of life. And so I don’t, the worst thing would be if someone at 3 a.m. comes to my page hoping to find some encouragement and they see some troll saying something on one of my posts. So I spend a lot of time combing through them and making sure everything’s positive and encouraging. So please go over there if you’re not following me yet and join our community.

Brittni:

Yes, and that’s it truly as a community when we talk about feeling alone, just simply you can go scroll her page and feel like, oh my gosh, I don’t feel so alone.

Tiffany:

I hope so. That’s what I’m trying to do, Britt. It’s hard.

Brittni:

You

Tiffany:

As you

Brittni:

are.

Tiffany:

know, it takes a lot of work, but… But hopefully it’s worth it.

Brittni:

You’re doing an amazing job. Thank you so much, Tiff, for being here. I’m so thankful.

Tiffany:

Thanks, Brit.

Brittni:

Thank you. Okay.